Ken Wilber, in his seminal work Sex, Ecology, Spirituality: The Spirit of Evolution, discusses at length the evolution of individual, social, and ecological consciousness.
As with Up From Eden, he takes a developmental view to evolution. It’s not an approach that’s particularly popular among primitivists, but the developmental approach is one that I’m finding more and more preferable, as it explains that we do come from somewhere and we are going somewhere.
Many prefer the idea that all organisms are equal and that evolution is non-directional, or rather just going in the direction of diversity; many target the very concept of development as part of the myth of progress that plagues civilization. They also argue that such views are reflective of the broader tendency in our oppressive civilization to impose our points of view on other — whether on other human cultures, or on nonhumans. In other words, the myth of progress is a result of hierarchy, and both progress and hierarchy are the fundamental evils of civilization.
This view I certainly find valid in a broad sense, and in fact I think it’s very important to understand how these particular memes of progress and hierarchy strongly and very negatively influence all our lives.
But I also find the simplistically non-directional view of evolution reductionistic. On a micro level, it’s obvious that individual humans go through developmental stages; and it’s obvious that some people are more “developed” than others in various respects. I think it’s appropriate to apply some of that reasoning to the macro level. Just because evolution doesn’t have a single direction doesn’t mean it has no direction, and doesn’t mean specific species don’t have directions. After all, in a general sense we can see the evolution of atoms to multicellular, complex, specialized organisms. There’s directionality to that. It’s certainly not an exclusive directionality — atoms, molecules, cells, plants, etc. can all survive without us. But I’m interested in the human perspective, what would give human development meaning in this universe.
It may be anthropocentric and reductionistic to apply our standards of evolution onto other living things, and to reduce others to reflections of ourselves. It’s also reductionistic to throw out the whole concept of development just because nonhumans do not pursue the same route. I think it can be eminently useful to examine our own development — where we’ve come from, where we’ve been, where we’re going. So that’s what I’m trying to do.
Further, Wilber’s theories work for me because he’s not simply talking about dominator hierarchies and a linear view of evolution.
Everything, from an atom to a universe has a twofold nature: it is both a whole in and of itself, and a part of something greater. Wilber borrowed Arthur Koestler’s word holon to describe this concept.
Thus, a natural hierarchy is a holarchy — something that exists naturally as both a whole and a part — in other words, everything. I am a holarchy of organs, and each organ is a holarchy of cells, etc. And in the other direction, I am a holon within a political holarchy called the United States, ad infinitum. Everything that exists can be conceived of as a holon and a holarchy, with this twofold nature.
The pathological hierarchies are those holarchies that refuse to admit that they have this twofold nature — they are the “male,” patriarchal, oppressive holarchies. This “male” version occurs if holarchies behave as if they were the whole: they dominate. The “female” version, by contrast, occurs if holarchies behave as if they were only a part of something else: they submit and diffuse pathologically.
But these pathologies do not deny the real, natural, and healthy existence of hierarchies, which are really holarchies. They simply cry out for redemption, a return to healthy holarchies.
Evolution, as well, can be seen as a natural progression of holonic/holarchical development. According to the Big Bang theory (if you accept it), first there were atoms and then eventually they became molecules, and much much later on earth they became bacteria and single-celled organisms, and now here we humans are. This is evolution as the successive enfolding of progressively broader and deeper levels of experience, both differentiated and integrated, with each successive level including but also subsuming the previous stages, holistically, holonically. It’s an approach that makes tremendous sense.
In Wilber’s book I find some resonance with the frustration I feel in considering the paradigm of the primitivist movement, not only in terms of how to view hierarchies and evolution, but more specifically in considering the “back to Eden” ideal. Over the years I’ve moved increasingly toward a developmental view of spiritual evolution, similar to what Wilber outlines, and away from the primitivist aim of returning to hunter-gatherer utopia.
Wilber writes,
Whenever evolution produces a new differentiation, and that differentiation is not integrated, a pathology results, and there are two fundamental ways to approach that pathology.
One is exemplified by the Freudian notion … of “regression in service of ego.” That is, the higher structure relaxes its grip on consciousness, regresses to a previous level where the failed integration first occurred, repairs the damage on that level by reliving it in a benign and healing context, and then integrates that level — embraces that level, embraces the former “shadow” — in the new and higher holon of the ego (or total self-system). For the ego’s problem was that during its formative growth, where it should have transcended and included its lower-level drives (such as sex and aggression), it transcended and repressed them, split them off, alienated them — one of the prerogatives of a higher-level structure with its greater relative autonomy, but a prerogative, we have seen, that is bought only and always at the price of pathology. Thus the cure: regression in service of a higher reintegration — a regression that allows evolution to move forward more harmoniously by healing and wholing a previously alienated holon.
The other general approach is the retro-Romantic, which often recommends regression, period. This approach, in my opinion, simply confuses differentiation and dissociation, confuses transcendence and repression. Thus, whenever evolution produces a new differentiation, and that differentiation happens to go into pathological dissociation, then this approach seeks to permanently turn back the pages of emergent history to a time prior to the differentiation. Not prior to the dissociation — we all agree on that! — but prior to the differentiation itself!
That will indeed get rid of the new pathology, at the cost of getting rid of the new depth, the new creativity, the new consciousness. By that retro-Romantic logic, the only way to really get rid of pathology is to get rid of differentiation altogether, which means everything after the Big Bang was a Big Mistake.
I still accept that a collapse of some sort is inevitable, and thus some sort of “die-off” will occur. But if it is to occur, it should occur for a purpose. I see the first approach — regression in order to integrate and move forward with healthy development — as the far more palatable option.
Wilber continues,
All the more disturbing in the retro-Romantic approach is the whole problem of where these theorists rather arbitrarily decide to stop their retroregression. For example, many theorists, looking with justifiable alarm at the repressions and alienations that often accompanied the Machine Age, maintain that we should never have gone past farming, and there then follows a wonderful eulogizing of the glories of the “nonmechanized” and “nondehumanizing” farming societies, where few humans were alienated from the products of their own labor and the “Great Mother” ruled in peaceful and holistic happiness. Never mind that many of these societies introduced deliberate human sacrifice, multiplied the extent and means of war, put gender stratification at its peak, and made vast numbers of its populations into slaves.
Spotting these obvious difficulties, other theorists then go further and maintain that most of humankind’s problems came with the invention of farming itself, because with farming the human animal began to deliberately alter the biosphere for its own gratification, produced a written language that ensconced power in the dogmatic text, produced an agricultural surplus that allowed some individuals to begin to economically control and enslave others, and began the wholesale subjugation of women. And, indeed, most of that did begin with agrarian farming.
So, these theorists maintain, we really should have never gone past hunting-and-gathering societies. The delightful things then said about these societies — some of which were peace-loving and rather egalitarian, and some of which most definitely were not — are, at the last, astonishingly one-sided. Until other theorists carefully point out that precious few of these societies were actually egalitarian, that warfare most definitely existed, that the very seeds of sexist subjugation were planted here, that slavery was not unheard of …
My point is that it is one thing to remember and embrace and honor our roots; quite another to hack off our leaves and branches and celebrate that as a solution to leaf rot. So we will celebrate the new possibilities of evolution even as we gasp in horror — and try to redress — the multiplicity of new pathologies.
Since it wasn’t the topic of his book, Wilber doesn’t spend too much time on the negative aspects of hunting-gathering societies. But I’d like to linger on it awhile, to deconstruct simplistic myths to better fit the reality that our present situation direly requires.
I’ve been thinking specifically about the topic of violence — always of interest to me. The accumulated archeological and anthropological evidence has shown that, contrary to Rousseau’s stereotype of hunter-gatherers as “noble savages,” the life of the hunter-gatherer included significant amounts of violence.
Azar Gat’s War in Human Civilization is a useful resource; despite its title, a significant portion is actually devoted to exploring the roots of human violence in specifically pre-agricultural societies. Gat writes,
One comparative study of 99 hunter-gatherer bands belonging to 37 different cultures found that practically all of them engaged in warfare at the time of the study or had ceased to do so in the recent past. According to another study, in 90 per cent of hunter-gatherer societies there was violent conflict, and most of them engaged in intergroup warfare at least every two years, similar to or more than the rest of human societies. The author of yet other comprehensive cross-cultural studies similarly concluded that “the greater the dependence upon hunting, the greater the frequency of warfare.”
As already mentioned, simple hunter-gatherers, who were thinly dispersed and nomadic, and had no substantial possessions, are at the center of the Rousseauite claim. Supposedly, they were peaceful because they had little to fight over and could always choose to go elsewhere rather than fight. Simple hunter-gatherers are particularly significant because, during most of the two million years of the Pleistocene and until about 35,000 years ago (the Upper Paleolithic), all humans were apparently hunter-gatherers of the simple sort. Yet the evidence from historical simple hunter-gatherers is that they fought, and with substantial casualties.
An interesting example:
In 1803, only 15 years after the first European first arrived in Australia, a 13-year-old English boy named William Buckley (1790-1856) was brought to the new continent with the first convict ship arriving at the penal settlement at Port Philip (now Melbourne). He escaped shortly after, and for 32 years, until 1835, he lived with an Aboriginal tribe. During that time, he learnt to speak their language and participated in their daily activities. No anthropologist has ever achieved a similar familiarity and at such an early date. After returning to “civilization,” Buckley on several occasions related his experience. His account appears to be remarkably authentic with respect to everything that can be verified concerning the natives’ life. Among other things, he describes about a dozen battle scenes, and many lethal feuds, raids, and ambushes, comprising an integral part of the native traditional way of life …
Thus, as the layperson — but, curiously, not many anthropologists — have naturally supposed, most hunter-gatherers, even of the most simple and diffuse sort, regularly engaged in fighting. Moreover, they lived under constant fear of violent conflict, which shaped their ordinary daily life. Death in fighting was among the principal causes of their mortality. … Fighting was probably an integral part of hunter-gatherers’ existence throughout the genus Homo’s evolutionary history of millions of years.
The primitivist counterargument is that there is far less violence in hunter-gatherer societies than in civilization, on the whole, at least on average; and, moreover, that most violence in civilization is on the periphery, so that the genuinely “civilized” in the center don’t have to deal with the violence on the edges of our way of life.
I think this point is pretty much universally agreed. I simply seek a different emphasis. I don’t want to go back to a way of life where violence and other negatives are minimized in an average sense. I want to move in a direction that genuinely moves beyond violence in a conscious way. And I think that simply to discard the terrible destruction of civilization is an error, because it is here that we learn our lessons — here, in the present, not in some imagined past.
Lawrence Keeley, in War Before Civilization, another balanced inquiry into the violence that pervades human history — “primitive” or “civilized — writes on the opposing hunter-gatherer stereotypes, Hobbes’ “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short,” and Rousseau’s “noble savage”:
Both [views] deny tribal peoples their complete humanity. A previous era refused to acknowledge the intelligence, sociability, and generosity of uncivilized people and the richness, effectiveness, and rationality of their ways of life. Today, popular opinion finds it difficult to attribute to tribal peoples a capacity for rapaciousness, cruelty, ecological heedlessness, and Machiavellian guile equal to our own. (For example, when ecological accusations fly, who recalls the ten marvelous and unique species of flightless birds [Moas] hunted to extinction by the ancient Polynesians who first settled New Zealand?) Both laypersons and academics now prefer a vision of tribal peoples as lambs in Eden, spouting ecological mysticism and disdain for the material conditions of life. In short, we wish them to be more righteous and spiritual (in our terms, not theirs), happier and less emotionally complicated, and less prone to rational calculations of self-interest than ourselves. With only rare exceptions, Westerns of the past few centuries have found it difficult to accept that primitive and prehistoric people were ever as clever, as morally equivocal, and as emotionally complex as themselves. When we attribute to primitive and prehistoric people only our virtues and none of our vices, we dehumanize them as much as ourselves.
A wise writer once noted that “he who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man.” By believing that primitive and prehistoric peoples were far more humane and peaceful than their modern civilized counterparts, we metaphorically make beasts of ourselves. Our capacity for organized violence, the universal ugliness of war, and the intricate difficulties of keeping a peace are part of the “pain” of being human. Accepting the despairing myth of the pacified past encourages us to neglect solving these universal problems in the only place we can — in the present, among ourselves.
The doctrines of the pacified past unequivocally imply that the only answer to the “mighty scourge of war” is a return to tribal conditions and the destruction of all civilization. But since the primitive and prehistoric worlds were, in fact, quite violent, it seems that the only practical prospect for universal peace must be more civilization, not less. Adherence to the doctrines of the pacified past absolve us from considering the difficult question of what a truly global civilization should consist of and, more importantly, what its political structure should be.
Depictions of precivilized humans as saints and civilized folks as demons are as hypocritical as they are erroneous. Rousseau never left his very civilized circumstances to join tribesmen living in his ideal state — for example, the hunting-gathering bands of Tasmania. Similarly, the modern-day primitive nostalgist listens to tribal music celebrating the sacredness of nature on a stereo composed of completely artificial materials ultimately extracted from strip mines and oil wells on territories seized or extorted from tribal societies. If Westerners have belatedly recognized that they are not the crown of creation and rightful lords of the earth, their now common view of themselves as humanity’s nadir is equally absurd. What is morally wrong with longer life; lower infant mortality; wider knowledge of the universe (including a science of ecology); water and food cleansed of parasites and pathogens; photography; Western literature, art, and music; or larger numbers of humans living on less land with fewer premature deaths, including violent ones? But the converse also applies. Can we morally or practically disdain the “social welfare” system of the Plains Indians, the sculpture and winter clothing of the Eskimos, the music and art of tribal Africans, the navigation skills of the Eskimos, the survival techniques of the Australian Aboriginals, the medical botany of countless tribal peoples, or the many “primitive” methods for resolving disputes without recourse to violence or lawyers? The myths of either primitive or civilized superiority deny the intellectual, psychological, and physiological equality of humankind. In fact, the proponents of the pacified past disclaim the idea that all peoples share a common human nature by denying that all societies are capable of using violence to advance their interests.
So where does this lead us? Merely to a place that says that a stereotyped, idealistic way of life ungrounded in the shades-of-grey complexities of the present — any present — does not guarantee health, wealth, and happiness, whether that way of life is primitive or civilized. Life should be lived in the Now, not in a mystical sense (or not just in a mystical sense), but in a sociopolitical sense.
Returning to the evolution of consciousness:
Ken Wilber considers some of the simpler ecospiritual approaches misguided. Regarding the “embraced by the land” or “participation mystique” experience of self and consciousness and environment — the animism that is celebrated by those who mythologize the hunter-gatherer — Wilber ascribes this to a developmental stage analogous to early childhood, and writes,
… Indissociation … is so often eulogized by Romantics, because, I believe, they mistake indissociation for integration. The magical-animistic structure, as lovely as it might appear to us jaded moderns, was not an integration of the biosphere [the world of the body, individually, and of the web of living organisms, collectively] and the noosphere [the world of mind, individually, and culture, collectively], because these had not yet been differentiated in the first place.
At the same time — and for precisely the same reason — that “lack of separation” might have embodied a type of ecological wisdom, a wisdom that many moderns are understandably trying to recapture. Namely, the tribal kinship consciousness, still lying “close to the body,” close to the biosphere, was for just that reason sometimes more “ecologically sound,” more in tune with natural wisdom, with the Earth and its many moods. And thus it is small wonder that, in these ecologically disastrous times, many moderns are attempting to resurrect the natural wisdom of tribal awareness more attuned with the biosphere.
I am in complete sympathy with that approach; I am not in sympathy with the attempt to turn back the clock and elevate this structure to a privileged status of integrative power that it simply did not possess. Further, whether “close to nature” automatically translates into “ecologically sound” is hotly debated. Lack of capacity to devastate the environment on a large scale does not automatically mean presence of wisdom, let alone reverence for the environment. And, in fact, many tribes … simply remained at one location until they had ecologically depleted the area, and then were forced to move on. Tribal awareness was in all cases close to nature, in the sense of indissociated; ecologically sound is another matter.
… The primal/tribal structure in itself did not necessarily possess ecological wisdom, it simply lacked the means to inflict its ignorance on larger portions of the global commons.
The main difference between tribal and modern eco-devastation is not presence or lack of wisdom, but presence of more dangerous means, where the same ignorance can now be played out on a devastating scale. As we will see, our massively increased means have led, for the first time in history, to an equally massive dissociation of the noosphere and biosphere, and thus the sure is not to reactivate the tribal form of ecological ignorance (take away our means), nor to continue the modern form of that ignorance (the free market will save us), but rather to evolve and develop into an integrative mode of awareness that will — also for the first time in history — integrate the biosphere and noosphere in a higher and deeper union.
According to Wilber’s thesis, having moved beyond the tribal developmental stage, we headed straight into a series of “higher” levels of development, each with its own dizzying array of new opportunities — and pathologies.
His reasoning is compelling.
Whether his theories do justice to indigenous consciousness, I’m still not sure. Some of the things I explored in part 2, particularly Sorenson’s essay, seem to point in that direction. But I’m no expert, so I can’t really say. But I do know that whether or not his theory describes all human evolution, it certainly seems to accurately describe civilized human evolution, and thus it can serve as a useful guide, to point us in the right direction.
One of the big things that has bothered me about the whole neo-tribal movement is my distrust of “tribes.” In part that is probably do to my own hangups about being around groups of people. But then again, there are some good reasons for that, and some of them were given above in my discussion on violence. People who adhere to a tribe become tribal, and that’s why tribalism, to most people except primitivists, exudes a negative connotation. Exclusive identification with your own limited group of people does not make for a particularly broad, integrative state of consciousness, but actually tends to foster the opposite — as our modern patriotism shows. What means do we have to transcend that?
And what means do we have for cultivating a consciousness of ecological harmony that integrates the entire biosphere, rather than just your own local bioregion? Sure, if you’re living really close to the earth, you’ll get to know it really well. But I believe that the beginning of wisdom is to respect the earth despite the distance created by the development of symbolic thought, the rational ego, and the mind-body split. In other words, what’s necessary is integration of the dissociated parts of the soul in a higher holonic state that both includes/respects its parts and unifies them in a meaningful whole — not regression to an undifferentiated state.
That’s where we stand now. In need of integration and harmonization of dissociated aspects of self. Not in need of permanent regression and destruction of important parts of ourselves.
Evolution moved beyond tribalism, and its limited capacity for social-planetary integration, for many reasons, it seems. Tribes may or may not have known how to remain reverential of nature; it was other tribes they could not integrate, and this because they lacked recourse to a binding conventional [in a developmental sense] level of law and morality that very soon would start to build unified societies out of separate and conflicting tribal desires. The problem wasn’t getting along with nature in the biosphere; it was getting along with other and conflicting interests in the noosphere that brought tribalism to its limits for evolutionary integrative power.
… In short, what was needed was not tribal but transtribal awareness, negating but preserving heretofore isolated tribal interests in a higher and wider communion; and mythology, not magic, provided the key for this new transcendence.
And so: some people today eulogize the primal tribal societies because of their “ecological wisdom” or their “reverence for nature” or their “nonaggressive ways.” I don’t think the evidence supports any of those views in a sweeping and general fashion. Rather, I eulogize the primal tribal societies for an entirely different reason: we are all the sons and daughters of tribes. The primal tribes are literally our roots, our foundations, the basis of all that was to follow, the structure upon which all subsequent human evolution would be built, the crucial ground floor upon which so much history would have to rest.
Today’s existent tribes, and today’s nations, and today’s cultures, and today’s accomplishments — all would trace their lineage in an unbroken fashion to the primal tribal holons upon which a human family tree was about to be built. And looking back on our ancestors in that light, I am struck with awe and admiration for the astonishing creativity — the original breakthrough creativity — that allowed humans to rise above a given nature and begin building a noosphere, the very process of which would bring Heaven down to Earth and exalt the Earth to Heaven, the very process of which would eventually bind all peoples of the world together in, if you will, one global tribe.
But in order for that to occur, the original, primal tribes had to find a way to transcend their isolated tribal kinship lineages: they had to find a way to go transtribal …
Evolution of Consciousness
- Evolution of Consciousness, Part 1: The Point of Civilization
- Evolution of Consciousness, Part 2: The Value of Prepersonal Consciousness
- Evolution of Consciousness, Part 3: Fall From Grace
- Evolution of Consciousness, Part 4: Trans-Tribalism
- Evolution of Consciousness, Part 5: Rudolf Steiner’s Perspective
- Evolution of Consciousness, Part 6: The End of the Beginning
11 Comments »
RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI




Interesting.
I can see your discussion of holarchies relating to “chunks of consciousness” as well — perhaps to our place, as individuals (and then a group), within the holarchies. I hope that isn’t too much of a leap. Is holarchy a term that could be used for a good part of, if not all of, the suggestion behind “chunks”?
I think so, I think our “chunks” do kind of sketch out something that is kind of like holons. But I don’t think we should use the term “holon” or “holarchy,” for two reasons.
One, “holarchy” or “holon” really refers to everything, so I don’t really like using it in a specific sense like we do with “chunks.”
And two, using the word “holon” a lot just sounds too snooty.
Interesting stuff for sure. I agree that primitivism needs to do a better job of reckoning with the concept and signs of progress and development, and also that there should be a response to our current situation which involves learning something rather than just amputating several millenia of human experience. However, your emphasis in this post seems a little too favorable toward progress.
Starting with the most abstract: I do believe that any model which is fundamentally progressive is pathological and destructive because it is based in an unwillingness to accept what reality is. The model should be a circle, not a line. Take an individual human life. There are certainly stages, and looked at in light of particular qualities one can make the case for a linear model, either of progress or degeneration. But looking at the human life as a whole, we call it the life-cycle. Many things can be progressed to and attained but those things are also lost when we die. I think this same pattern functions on most other levels as well, even up to cosmological history, which is largely speculation and is mostly a projection of one’s model of things, but for my part Ill take the hindu story of cycling universes.
For me there is a deep spirituality in recognizing that existence isnt for anything. It is not in another time that existence will be what it is supposed to be or will be fully itself. It is those things all the time. Ultimately, there is nothing to be lost or gained.
Wilber’s story is largely BS, at least as it applies to human spiritual history. It makes for good reading and its cool to see symbols transformed as they appear in different systems, but his examples are too carefully selected. There are too many cases that dont fit his story. And more importantly, one can find all the levels of spiritual reasoning within any culture and even within given individuals.
The specific issue that you focus on in this post is war. I dont think that we’re ever going to get beyond war; neither through tribalism, rhizomatic alliances, or through a world government. It is the nature of things to breed up until the population approaches the carrying capacity. Conflict results from the tension that this situation produces and serves to control the population. I think this goal results from a very civilized mindset. The hunter-gatherer has a much better understanding of killing and death. They kill for their food and understand this to be part of the way of things. Also their psychology is more communal, less individualist, so they understand that life continues through the tribe.
When I think about these matters I like to meditate on the old phrase “a good day to die.” What this phrase means to me is that death is innevitable and we should have no shyness toward our fate, but should relate to our mortality (and the mortality of others) in a way that will make the world a good and happy place to live in for the living.
The other advantage that primitives have in relation to war is that the mode of primitive war is less traumatic and more psychologically satisfying.
I prefer the image of a spiral. Seen from the top, it looks circular; seen from the side, it looks linear (more or less); but it can’t be captured in either of those dimensions.
See, the thing is, I experience my own life as a progression, and I don’t see that as destructive or pathological at all. It seems kind of extreme to me to consider any developmental model thus.
To me, existence is to develop toward being one with the Divine. It’s true, in a sense, that the Divine is within and around everything and that won’t change. The fault is in us, for not being able to perceive and experience it. So I think both are true: there is no change in the essential nature of the universe; and, there must be growth.
I’d be interested to hear more on this.
I’m not sure I entirely buy Wilber’s reasoning, and much of it does seem to ignore entirely the indigenous dimension of life. But his is the first I’ve encountered (in my limited reading on the topic) that presents things in a way that criticizes the “retro-Romantics” in the same way I would criticize some strains of primitivist thought.
I don’t think we’re going to get beyond war anytime soon either. I certainly have more questions than answers on that topic. I think it’s valuable to explore, though.
I really don’t know what you mean by that. To my understanding, violence and war are universally abhorred, even if universally practiced.
Death is part of the cycle of life. But does war have to be?
In Keeley’s book he talks about warriors in even the most warlike of pre-civilized people going through periods of spiritual detoxification and isolation, because otherwise they would experience something that we might term post-traumatic stress disorder. I’m afraid that I don’t see war of any kind, in any age, as satisfying.
Dear David,
I have enjoyed your recent blog posts, and think you might be interested in a problem that is currently nagging at me.
With nature constantly being destroyed, mankind quickly moves itself into great peril. Great catastrophies are to come — and not only from her, but also from our greedy society.
One answer to this is autarchy: a home in a safe place, growing your own food, having your own fountain, using amateur radio to communicate — well, you get my point.
The question now is: is this, from a spiritual and moral view, a legitimate solution? Must we not face the challenges imposed on us by the group soul of mankind *directly*, instead of hiding and maybe helping from a safe hideout? Must we not undergo that same suffering, to be cleansed from this karma?
I hope you are interested in discussing some of this with me, but if you decline, it’ll be perfectly okay
In any case I wish you good fortune with both your spiritual and your mundane work.
Leslie
Hi Leslie,
Before I answer your question about the spiritual and moral stuff, I just want to address the issue of physical survival and security.
I used to think that survival meant something like what you call autarchy, but a lot of people I respect think differently and I’ve come around to their point of view. In a nutshell, going it alone like that can be suicidal in the long run. You foster no positive connections with the outside world and thus you make yourself vulnerable.
Here’s a quote from a rather scary article about living through the collapse of the Argentinian economy:
The author of this article argues the same thing as many primitivists, which is that living in small groups, i.e. tribes, is not only the best way to survive but also the most fulfilling way to relate to the world anyway.
But you weren’t exactly asking about these things from a survival perspective, you were coming from a perspective of karma. So let me ask you, which challenges are you talking about? Because I think the solution you choose will depend on that. Will depend on a lot of things, I’m sure.
I don’t believe that suffering is in and of itself “cleansing.” Karma is what you learn from life and how you express your understanding and growth. If your soul is getting ground down in the city, maybe it’s karmic redemption if you learn to live wild and free in the woods. If your soul gets ground down by forcing yourself to live in a shack in the woods, steeped in an atmosphere of fear, maybe it’s karmic redemption to learn the rewards of tribal, village, or even city life.
But I don’t know … I haven’t even chosen my path yet, I hardly feel qualified to advise you on yours!
Dear David,
the article quote you gave me is very interesting, thank you.
Indeed, living in small communities would probably be the best.
I cannot agree to you saying that autarchy means no (positive) connections to the outside world. What I’m talking about is mainly economical autarchy: not depending on someone else to grow healthy food, relying on nature for giving us energy, etc.
And even if I take on the survival perspective, there’s always the opportunity to GIVE. Give shelter, give food, give love. So there’s always opportunity to set up positive connections.
I didn’t mean to imply that, either. I’m sorry, I should have phrased it more clearly. Suffering is of course only cleansing if you find out why you’re suffering and then redeem the karma.
The question perhaps is: how do we know we suffered (learned) enough? Astrological work I have conducted on myself seems to imply that one of the main challenges in my life is being aware of the inadequacies of the society around me. When comes the point when I can leave that behind (i.e. distance myself from society to a certain, in this case economical, extent)?
Thinking again, the central challenge imposed on every human being by the group soul is evolving as a whole, isn’t it? So by choosing autarchy AND helping others on their way, there should be no harm done, right?
Leslie
If there’s nothing wrong with death, then what’s wrong with killing? Of course Im not saying it should be taken lightly, that would … the sacredness of life. The seriousness of killing should be emphasized and ritualized, as in the isolation rituals that you mention. I am aware of these rituals from another source, and as I understand it, these rituals are not really about anything that approaches the level of PTSD, they are meant to reflect the gravity of war and to keep certain emotions for the battle, directed outward, and not brought back to the tribe.
I agree that killing is a big deal, and if the culture did not provide a system to understand what one has done, this could be hard to deal with, but PTSD is on a whole other level.
You say that you dont see any war as satisfying, so I guess youre a gentle fellow, but I like to scrap and I have some yearnings to kill.
To shift this away from a head-on debate, Id like to hear what you think we have learned from our civilized experience that, when it is reintegrated, will make us better people. Do you see a seed of the solution to war in this?
Hi Leslie,
I think I just interpreted the word “autarchy” too crudely, I’ve never seen it before. Sorry about that. I would agree with what you wrote here, and that’s one of my general goals as well.
Tough questions. How do we know we’ve learned enough in suffering circumstances? No easy or clear answer. Trial and error, is my way. Staying in and dealing with a negative situation can have many positive benefits, like developing willpower and acceptance and forgiveness, and many negative consequences, like getting ground down and abused. It’s probably like cooking, you don’t want to overdo or underdo it, and it varies according to individual tastes anyway, not to mention that your appetite varies by the day. Lots of factors.
But really, whatever you do, you learn.
Stay in enough negative situations and you’ll find out, as I’m sure you have, how they affect you. Try something different and there will be positives and negatives too, but maybe more positives than negatives compared to the old situation, so you might assess that overall as good, and it might give you more of what you want in order to follow your heart — i.e. feel better, be stronger, have more to give back to the world.
I think you have to really know and understand yourself as best you can and explore and consider your options in all their facets; and in the end, take a risk and commit to something, and see how that plays out.
But maybe I’m not answering your question; if so, it’s because I’m kind of talking theoretically here because I don’t know the specifics of your situation. It sounds like you’re experiencing something of a conundrum, like you’re suffering where you are right now, but wanting to make sure that there’s nothing negative in severing yourself from society to some extent. I wondered if you would care to share more …
But even so, I wouldn’t presume to tell you what you should do. I’d just be interested in seeing how you decide what you should do.
solxyz,
In short, we kill for many more and pettier reasons than for genuine need or to maintain some sort of cosmic harmony; and it’s our responsibility to understand death and its ramifications precisely in order to make those choices consciously.
Speaking for myself, to kill, even in self-defense, would be very traumatic for me.
I feel violent sometimes. For me, that’s always rooted in fear. So in a sense it’s satisfying to lash out violently. But it’s satisfying only at a more superficial level. But you’re right, I can’t deny that it does hold satisfaction. I just don’t completely trust that satisfaction.
Those are excellent questions. Let me think about that one for a little bit …
Hi solxyz,
I was thinking about this for awhile, and I was realizing that the reason I tripped over this question was that I’ve been wrestling with just such a question for a while, and trying to come up with an answer is exactly what has sparked many of my posts over the past year or two.
When I ask what life I want to live in this world, I question what my relationship is with modern civilization.
What I’ve learned so far is that I don’t believe in a simple, direct return to hunter-gatherer ways.
What I haven’t figured out yet is the path I want to navigate in this modern, civilized world.
I could try to come up with specific things that we should “keep” from civilization, but anything I’m thinking of at the moment would be too easy to deconstruct. Jason Godesky on his Anthropik website argues that everything positive in civilization has its roots in the hunter-gatherer life, and that everything negative is endemic to civilization. I would say that everything positive comes from our own humanity, civilized or primitive, and that the task is to create a society that best allows full expression of that humanity. To me it’s about a purification and development of consciousness, to put it simplistically. But that’s New Age pap unless it’s tied to something concrete and practical. Which I don’t have yet. So the best I can say is that my thinking along those lines is really at a very early stage of development, and hasn’t reached the point of specifics.
Any thoughts?